Another GT disappears

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Another GT disappears

Postby Colin » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:29 pm

This is a continuation of the locked thread, 'Another GT appears'.

Following the below comment by Rizzo, club chairman Fred Dukes locked that thread because it had become too emotive. However a further polite response is necessary.

Re: Another GT appears
by rizzo » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:56 pm
Rizzo writes,

'Personally i think this has gone far enough, and I'm surprised the club is letting this run, ref the forum rules stated above, this is clearly becoming personal issue! this guy has a rare car, and is planning some changes which will secure its future on the road, if its classic or modern does it really matter on the grand scheme of things, seriously people are dying in the world, can we move on now?'


Response to the above comment:

Rizzo is right in that it doesn't matter much in the scheme of things and of course we are currently facing far more serious problems than the preservation or otherwise of a few rare cars. However this is a classic car forum and that is the subject the forum.

I can only again re-emphasise that this post is NOT intended to be personally hostile towards anyone.

This is actually about our club's apparent lack of interest in the preservation of extremely rare historic cars. It is wrong to try to shut down debate around that issue.

The changes planned for JDC1's exceptionally rare Canadian Viva GT will not, as Rizzo says, 'secure its future on the road'. The changes will actually only reduce the car's historic value to that of just another customised classic / modern hybrid bearing little resemblance to the original car.

Like many other now extremely rare Vauxhalls this car will have been changed into something else. With cars of this extreme rarity it is clearly wrong to continue to encourage irreversible alteration like this.

It may not apply to this Canadian GT but there is a good reason why the UK government has effectively outlawed the significant alteration of historic vehicles by removing Historic vehicle tax exemption and making them subject to Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA). In addition to safety issues it is to try to stop the continuing destruction of historic vehicles.

Stripping an exceptionally rare historic car of its original engine, running gear and interior and replacing those items with modern components from other makes - under a pretence of necessity to 'keep a classic on the road' - restores nothing and preserves nothing. It is just another form of destruction.

Common sense should see the club now promoting and encouraging the historic preservation of rare cars, but the accompanying thread seems to suggest that a majority of our membership would still prefer to see the irreversible alteration of even the rarest cars. No other classic car club would encourage destruction like this. This issue has led me to question my continuing club membership.

Obviously only the owner has control over the car's fate. I can only try to persuade him to re-think his plans. The club should be doing the same.



Fred,

I don't intend to make further comment around this issue. I have no objection if you wish to also lock this thread.


Best wishes,

Colin
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Re: Another GT disappears

Postby Fred Dukes » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:18 pm

Colin - 2 swallows don't make a summer :wink: - the majority of club members haven't made any type comment on the Canadian Non member's post on the restoration/ modification plans for this rare epic envoy GT. both you and I have made him aware of the rarity of the vehicle and have suggested maybe it could be done in a sympathetic and reversible manner if possible - but at the end of the day the Club respects that vehicle owners can restore/modify their vehicles to their particular needs.
I am sorry you feel that you have received lack of support from "the Club" but I feel that we have to respect each other views and our purpose is to steer and not dictate.
Just a reminder of the Club Objectives as specified in the Constitution :-
Key Objectives

To promote the use and preservation of the Vauxhall Viva and its variants.

To encourage contact between members of the club through organised events.

To organise and attend events at which members can actively participate.

To provide technical assistance to members and provide help in sourcing spare parts and cars.

If you think that these objectives require revisioning then please put your proposals forward to the Committee for consderation and approval by the membership at the next AGM.
CHAIRMAN, and general dogs body
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Re: Another GT disappears

Postby Colin » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:40 am

Morning Fred,

I should just say that this was not meant to be a criticism of you or the committee either. My reference to 'the club' was meant to mean all of us, collectively, as a group of enthusiasts.

I don't feel unsupported, and of course we shouldn't try to dictate to anyone. This i's just a gentle plea for perhaps a little more emphasis on preservation by all of us, that's all.

You, the committee and all club members can rely on my continued support. :)
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Re: Another GT disappears

Postby jdc1 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:38 pm

Fred Dukes wrote:Colin - 2 swallows don't make a summer :wink: - the majority of club members haven't made any type comment on the Canadian Non member's post on the restoration/ modification plans for this rare epic envoy GT. both you and I have made him aware of the rarity of the vehicle and have suggested maybe it could be done in a sympathetic and reversible manner if possible - but at the end of the day the Club respects that vehicle owners can restore/modify their vehicles to their particular needs.
I am sorry you feel that you have received lack of support from "the Club" but I feel that we have to respect each other views and our purpose is to steer and not dictate.
Just a reminder of the Club Objectives as specified in the Constitution :-
Key Objectives

To promote the use and preservation of the Vauxhall Viva and its variants.

To encourage contact between members of the club through organised events.

To organise and attend events at which members can actively participate.

To provide technical assistance to members and provide help in sourcing spare parts and cars.

If you think that these objectives require revisioning then please put your proposals forward to the Committee for consderation and approval by the membership at the next AGM.
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Re: Another GT disappears

Postby Colin » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:25 pm

From the two pictures shared it looks really original JDC. Here is the HB Canadian Epic / Viva chapter from Vauxpedia with some model history and brochures -

http://vauxpedianet.uk2sitebuilder.com/ ... pic-canada







And the Vauxpedia home page -

http://vauxpedianet.uk2sitebuilder.com/

Could you maybe email me some more pictures before the car is changed? I have a small collection of Viva GT parts and might be able to help with some stock items if you were to decide to keep the car standard. Here's my email address - colindbarrett@btinternet.com

Stay safe,

Colin
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Re: Another GT disappears

Postby jdc1 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:10 pm

I owned an 1969 Epic in the mid 70's the one in my profile pic.
I noticed in the links you sent that there were some pics with Michigan plates to my knowledge none were sold in the USA.
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Re: Another GT disappears

Postby Colin » Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:57 am

jdc1 wrote:I owned an 1969 Epic in the mid 70's the one in my profile pic.
I noticed in the links you sent that there were some pics with Michigan plates to my knowledge none were sold in the USA.


That's right JDC. The Michigan plate cars would have been development cars shipped over to Detroit for appraisal by GM management.

Have a look at some of the other Vauxpedia chapters for pictures of other Michigan plated cars, such as the FE Victor VX 4/90 Ventora and HA Viva chapters. Those cars were never sold in the US either.

This VX 4/90 is a good example. This car was sold in the UK (I have two). It was actually designed for sale in Canada but was cancelled there after the Canadian Firenza debacle (another story you might remember... :lol:)

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