1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby droopsnoot » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:12 am

I once had an MOT fail for not having the inner arches welded to the outers - I'd had the outers replaced with repair panels, and they'd been done as a cosmetic job. I don't know how much difference it will make to structural strength and if they're covered in some way (mine just clearly stopped when you look up the arch) no-one might ever notice.

They should be welded along the lip of the arch, the bit that curls in after the double radius / mud trap part. I've seen various different ways of fixing the problem so that the rust doesn't come back, though I've taken the view that as I know the trap is there, it's something I need to keep on top of, rather than making it different in some way. As my arches are very poor, I've at least been in the position where I can put the repair sections on from the outside rather than welding 'up' into the wheelarch. I've been doing mine by test fitting the arch, making a 3-4" L-section, curving it, then tacking, then removing the arch and welding it properly.

The gutter section might not be quite so bad, because of where it is. If it was further up, it's also the only way that the roof is held on to the car along the sides, but because it's at the bottom of the pillar (that's the back in your photo, isn't it?) it just spot welds onto the bottom of the quarter panel edge. So you just need to strip the paint and drill out a few spotwelds allowing a bit of excess for the inevitable creepage of the hole, fix the panel, then weld the channel back on. Shout if you want a photo - I've done the same on the C pillar on the hatch, and although it's a different shape the principle is the same.
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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby oli8925 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:23 pm

Thanks for the advice again.

Not quite sure I understand your way of fixing the inner arch. Where do you tack the L-section to?

Good news about the gutter section too (yes that is the rear of the car), thanks.

Didn't get as much done as I wanted to today but I did package more or less my entire shed of parts into watertight boxes, so hopefully no more rogue rusting.

Fully removing the arch gave me a good look at the sill. I knew it already but it's a bit messy, holes through to the underside and holes through to the inside just in front of the inner arch. So plenty to chop out to gain access to other areas. Need to grind off those triangular plates under the rear seat to get a proper look at how the panels join, then start making repairs. Only other thing I got done today was drilling the holes for the rear door switches, something else ticked off the list at least.
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That frilly looking lip falling off was all sealant
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I've taken a wire brush to it and doused it in zinc primer to try to keep off any more rust for the time being.
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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby droopsnoot » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:53 am

I tack the L-section on the inside of the inner arch, because I'm not comfortable with welding 'up' into the arch I then remove the outer bit and do the rest of the welding from there. Have a look at this photo:

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You can just about see where I've welded each short section from the outside of the car, then I'll clean up the welding on the inside of the arch once it's all put together and on the rollover jig.
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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby oli8925 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:03 pm

Ah, I think I see now.

I'm now at the point where I need to decide how and in what order I'm going to repair bits, and my fear of cutting metal has returned :lol:

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^Here's what I currently have. The pen over the arch is the damage from the scrape it once had. I'm wondering how to and how much I should repair and how much to leave to fillering smooth. Also wondering where I should cut the outer arch and make the weld with the arch lip panel.

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^This is the nasty bit. I've cut out a bit more sill that had holes in anyway. The dashed area I've drawn out I was thinking of cutting out carefully to give me more or less full access to the inner arch-inner sill-floorpan area that's rusted. So then it's a case of working out what panel joins what panel and where, cutting out the rot and making repair sections of each panel to weld in then weld together. Good plan or should I do it differently?

This is the area from the inside
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And once that's done; sort inner arch, weld on outer arch, weld up outer sill, then move onto repairing the spare wheel well, rear panel, inner arch (rear of) so I can make a repair for the bottom of the rear quarter. Sounds like a lot of work, and that's only one corner of the car :lol:
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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby droopsnoot » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:19 am

What you could with doing next, I think, is get the underseal off the outer inner arch towards the bottom and then get the rotary wire brush on it to see how far up the damage goes. It looks quite rusty from the photo, but might not be that bad. Once you know that, you can decide more on how to fix it.

To me, you should fix from the inside outwards, you know already that the lower rear seatbelt mount area is bad because you can see it, that to me is the inner inner arch, but the surface rust you can see from the sill section is the outer inner arch, if you see what I mean.

In a way I've been quite lucky, although mine was horribly rusty, the fact that it's so bad means that it doesn't matter if I have to cut some more out to get at an area that needs repair. As yours isn't so bad it seems a pity to remove anything that doesn't need it.

I wish I had a decent CAD package and the skills to use it - I think I could describe the way the panels fit together there (at least on an estate) because I've had them all out and back.
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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby oli8925 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:01 pm

Good point actually, I do need to do that. Completely forgot about taking back that section. That can be the job for today then.
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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby oli8925 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:37 am

And here are the results

Inner arch and outer arch inner skin. Half the seatbelt mounting plate fell off, the other half I cut out.
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And again, bit easier to see the holes in the sill area.
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Same area, looking in to the sill (the red lines are the start of me trying to work out what panel goes where)
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From the inside
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Also took the chance to see what was behind the bubbling on the shock mount strengthening plate. Nice!
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Looked up and saw this hiding on the bottom of the door (It's very crusty)
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And with light failing decided to strip the sill back a bit more to make sure the rest was solid
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It's not. So, my thought's were I could keep cutting out and welding in new patches for every hole, but then I don't know what the inside is really like and it would be pointless spending ££££ and getting a fresh paint job for the rust to bubble through in a year or two. So should I replace the entire sill so I know it's all good clean metal and I can properly inspect the inside? In which case genuine or pattern sill? Or should I chop the bottom half out as much as I need to and weld the bottom half of a pattern sill on? I tried asking my dad for advice but it was fruitless. Basically "why make more work than you need to, just patch over the holes"...errr, no.

So end of day whatever it is, 400 odd by now since it came off the road, and this is what I have
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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby fistfullofV5's » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:32 am

Hi Oli,
I've had to tackle the exact same repairs on my Firenza and it was definitely easier for me to start from the inside and work out. Sometimes,I had to cut away sound metal just to get access which was frustrating but had to be done. I did the inner sill and floor section, then the front part of the inner rear arch and outer arch and finally the outer sill. Mine were old pattern panels and I had to do some reshaping,but nothing too drastic.
Best of luck, Dave.
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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby droopsnoot » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:33 pm

That's not terrible, it could have been worse. You've got trouble on the inner and outer wheel tubs and the back of the inner and outer sills. A "proper" sill would be better, if you want to go that way I have a four-door genuine sill that I might get rid of now I've taken the profile off it, but a pattern would be much cheaper. In fact if you're only doing the bottom part of it, you could probably make it yourself.

That part is where all the panels come together, that's why it is so susceptible to corrosion. Same for the shock mount - it's two panels spot welded together, so moisture gathers between them and rots outwards but you don't see it until it comes through. I think from the inside outwards you have the edge of the floor, then the inner sill, then the 'inner inner' wheel tub, then the 'outer inner', and finally the outer. As Dave said, you might have to cut out some good bits to do a proper job on the other parts, but not too much.
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Re: 1975 Viva DeLuxe - What Have I Done?

Postby oli8925 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:39 pm

If the rest of the sill is like the photo, ie a few pinholes here and there in the lower half, would you replace the whole thing or just the lower half? There's now pattern sills on the 'bay for £60 a pair.
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