Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby chrismc » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:45 pm

Fred, don't beat yourself up about this. My advice is to offer the next car to club members only for what you see as a fair price. After a period of time if it doesn't sell then you can sell for an inflated price on the open market.

You can do this with a clear conscious because you offered it to the true enthusiasts first and had no interest. If someone is willing to pay the inflated price then it's a win win situation surely?

A car is worth what someone will pay for it. :o
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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby Fred Dukes » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:44 pm

I here what you say Chris - I advertised the yellow HC in members only area and had no interest for 6 months - members tend to have cars already and there only a few who are looking for specific offers. I advertised Goldie in this area -which has public access - and at the same time in ClassicCarsforSale. com. I deliberately avoided Ebay. There were many inquiries from the external advert before I had any interest from the Club Website :wink:
The problem with the end result is that it is now offered to enthusiasts at twice the price they could have bought it for a month ago! If this sells at the asking price now it is going to push the expected price and reduce the availability to "working man".
The quick buck brigade who just add price rather than add value just make me fume :(
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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby Colin » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:37 pm

It's not your fault, Fred. You sold the car at what you felt was a fair price to person you believed to be a genuine enthusiast. There was no way you could have known the buyer was a profiteering dealer.

And in any event, the dealer might have upped the asking price by 85% but that doesn't mean it will sell for that sort of money.

Like so many good cars It will probably sit in the dealer's garage for months without selling until he gets fed up and auctions it, where it will then sell for around the fair price at which you sold it - unfortunately probably to another dealer who will then again try the same idiotic mark up - and so the cycle continues.

As we all know there are unfortunately quite a few nice classic Vauxhalls circulating between dealers and auction houses at the moment. It's just the way of the world.

Respect to you, Fred, for your fair mindedness and decency! :respekt:
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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby Fred Dukes » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:33 am

Interestingly the "dealer" in Walsall is marked "Status" - Private - :oops: Thanks for your kind words folks :P
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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby 1900sr » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:50 am

A friend of mine has been caught twice by the same thing, dealers posing as collectors to buy stock. The first time he had a very low mileage Manta B, and to be fair the guy paid the asking price which we both thought was about right. He was going to get the car resprayed as it had a few "one careless lady owner" type dings and scrapes and put it into his collection. The story was his dad used to have a main dealers and he's been looking for the right Manta for ages. It turned up on a forecourt a few days later with no work done and a description that made the car out to be so much better than it was for twice the money.

The second time another friend advertised a blue MK1 Cav saloon for sale, and had a fair bit of interest. Someone enquired about the car but before he confirmed he wanted it it sold to someone else. The original guy said he was disappointed as it was just the car he was looking for, right colour etc. Friend number one had a same colour Mk1 Cav Sportshatch, which he decided to offer to the guy as he really wanted one. Same story, private collector blah blah blah, on a forecourt at a highly inflated price. This car moved shortly afterwards to a different dealer still at the stupid price where it stayed for ages. I think he finally sold it about a year ago after having it a couple of years.

The thing that gets me is, if these dealers are prepared to lie to buy a car, what will they do to sell one. Actually, having read the adverts for the above cars they are willing to lie even more to sell one.
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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby Fred Dukes » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:51 pm

Price is now at £4550 offers invited :roll:
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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby lord13 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:12 am

Unfortunately my friend this is the way of the world, it seems that in this day and age no one cares, no one has any integrity, and no one is honest where money is concerned.

When i got in to viva's, back in the '90's, they were the unloved classic, and prices reflected this, My first car, a 1159 SL, ( which i still own ),was £300 with mot ... I actually wanted a mkII escort but all i could afford was the viva... so glad i bought it though :) Thus followed many a happy year with vauxhalls, ownership of at least 13 or 14 viva's plus other models, until family and work commitments made owning and using a viva as a daily driver unviable ( never had much money, dunno why, i work hard, it just seems to elude me ) so i waved goodbye to my last daily, a silver HC, in about 2006..... since then i've seen viva prices skyrocket, until we are at the point of people asking £500+ for a basket case and over £2k for something useable... no offence Fred, this HC was a fine motor but way way way out of my price range.
Ebay is to blame i believe, it's a minefield of dealers, snipers, and generally unsavoury people, the type who, in the past, would ring you up if you had an ad running and you would have had that 'alarm bell' ringing in your head clamoring 'this is not right, this person is a scammer', I think we all have had that happen.... but we all get stung at some point i guess.

This all points me towards giving up, all i have of my first viva, my first ever car, is a log book, quite a few boxes of bits, and a shell that is so rotten it's almost 6 inches lower as it sits in my Dad's garage ... i doubt i'll ever afford to get hold of a workable shell to rebuild her, it's a pipe dream these days. i simply cannot afford viva ownership anymore.... If i do decide to give up on her, i'll post the bits on this forum, to help others keep their viva's going. I will not advertise outside of here, because i refuse to let anyone profit out of the demise of my car.

sorry to witter on a bit and hijack the thread, i'm just in a despairing mood, I'm sorry you were stung Fred, It's a shitty world, i do believe we should keep the viva's within the club, no outside advertising, and only sell to paid up members ( which actually I am not . . . sorry, i've not got round to it these past few (10? 15?) years, i should maybe look to rectifying that considering what i've been saying huh?)
anyway, my point is, if someone really wants a viva, and is really genuine about keeping and maintaining one, then joining the club wouldn't be a problem for them, then the club has all the details of the buyer and someone out to make profit probably wouldn't want to join just to buy something he's going to 'ship on' at an inflated price...ok so it's not a foolproof method of vetting potential buyers, but it's a step forward :)

And Fred...i promise i'll rejoin when i next get paid.... if i'm going to keep my box of bits ;)

can i have my old membership number back? (HB147) if it's not been re-allocated that is :)
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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby 1900sr » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:47 pm

lord13 wrote:, i do believe we should keep the viva's within the club, no outside advertising, and only sell to paid up members ( which actually I am not . . . sorry, i've not got round to it these past few (10? 15?) years, i should maybe look to rectifying that considering what i've been saying huh?)
anyway, my point is, if someone really wants a viva, and is really genuine about keeping and maintaining one, then joining the club wouldn't be a problem for them, then the club has all the details of the buyer and someone out to make profit probably wouldn't want to join just to buy something he's going to 'ship on' at an inflated price...ok so it's not a foolproof method of vetting potential buyers, but it's a step forward :)

.

The problem with this is that it will limit those joining the club. I bought my Viva outside of the club. I wasn't particularly looking for a Viva, I was looking for a "classic" car I could take to shows this year. If to buy a decent Viva I'd have had to join the club first, then I wouldn't have got a Viva. A few years ago I was thinking about a Marina Coupe, and I went on the OC website. You can only access the ads if you are a paid up member. I wasn't going to join just to look at ads, so I bought something different. If I'd found the right Marina I would've joined the club, just as I've joined the Viva OC now I've got one.
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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby viva boy » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:19 pm

I don't think the price thing is an issue here, it's the fact of buying and falsifying the reason behind buying it.
I personally wish in 1991 I had of bought the HS chevette for £2700 and the HPF firenza for £2600 as now I would love the profit made. However is it profit ? I would of spent thousands of pounds in insurance, tax, storage and maintenance over them years keeping them to a high standard.
Now you are looking at £15,000 for an HS and maybe the same for a mint Hpf (correct me if I'm wrong)
But I have to say there are fewer classic vauxhalls available to a buyer now so that puts the price up,
Let's say if you want a nice mint firenza, how much would you be willing to pay ??
I remember buying a lovely one owner 36,000 mile full service history magnum 2300 for £645 in 1990.
if I was to sell it now I'd want £8000 plus, as how many do you see now on the road or even at shows ????
Prices will always go up as a 40-50 year old classic that one man would pay £2000 for the next man might be willing to pay £4000 for.
But I do believe as a club we should stick together with spare parts and cars, giving club members first refusal.
Maybe the club should purchase the good cars like Fred was selling and for the club to put it up for sale at a ballooned price and the profit go into making/remanufacturing new spare parts to keep the cars alive ??
What do you all think ????
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Re: Viva HC Deluxe 1973 1256cc OHV

Postby Fred Dukes » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:04 pm

To Clarify - I sold this car at what I thought was a fair price and was happy with that. What I will do next time is do a bit more research on potential buyers - I was unaware that Martin Howey was dealer (chancer) - should have look into the name.
Putting stupid prices on cars without even adding any value only limits the potential buyers to those that can afford them and sets a president for the future sale - look what has happened the F**d prices - that is what annoys me.
I dont think the Club is set up to buy and sell cars - we are not a business nor want to be - if you want to improve the availability of parts re manufacture it needs more proactive members - maybe small working groups to put some time in and investigate various viable ways forward. People prepared to commit to a re-manufacture purchase
In my own small way I have addressed this with recored radiators - at a much better price than an individual can get them done - why cos I get a batch size of 10+ done - this ties my money up - try and get people to commit to purchase in advance does not happen :| Ask Paul Cullum/ Steve Hammond - they tried to get commitment prior to development of re-manufactured items ( stainless exhausts - reconditioned oil pumps etc)
Tim Chick - does reconditioned starers and alternators
I got a OHC head gasket set batch made and I still have half of those festering in the corner :roll:
There needs to be a mind set change of the membership from only wanting an item when the existing one is broke to acquiring items for personal stock "just in case" - taking advantage of bulk buys.
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