Alternator transplant and dizzy matters

[thomas]

No. 1 issue on this HB is alternator, need to find what is compatible in terms of bracketry, fittings and wiring, belts, pulleys and get one on it and fitted rapidly, I'm going out with a voltmeter and a charged battery to see if the dynamo is putting anything out at all, I take it what's pictured is a dynamo as the lucas regulator is still in circuit.

Can anyone point me towards a source of what I'll need. This is an HB with Chevette 1256 power.

Though its a bit frankenstein, the points ignition can stay in the meantime and I'm not even sure what the dizzy is (the HB one or the Chevette one, I suspect it's Chevette, so then the question is is the dizzy Bosch or Delco.

Hardest part is figuring out whats else is Chevette in ancillary components etc. The previous owner though who only put the Chevette engine in at Christmas-time (Dec 2011) is knowledgeable and helpful.





Any help appreciated.

[thomas]

Here's a better shots of the distributor internals, I'm thinking Bosch but could be wrong, can't see any manufacturs name anywhere easily visible, it certainly is the Chevette one, I have an old distributor in the boot, with the offset drive peg, which i assume is the HB 1159cc one, I'm hoping the one fitted, the ex-Chevette one is the revised desin as I know some early 1256 Viva HC's might possibly have had the flawed offset drive too, but if they were never fitted to Chevettes, 75 onwards only, then its the better design and not likely to break off.



The dynamo is actually kicking out well when above idle, it might be the Lucas regulator is deficient, as it shouldn't surely be throwing out 16.5 volts or so (measured at the battery, in circuit) I don't think when I rev it up, I even seen a peak above 17v momentarily and with a battery just off an overnight charge and still fizzing, its showing unloaded just 12.6 volts when I expected it to comfortably top 13.

This second shot shows the coil, which is marked 12v on the side (and looks identical, tho the spare one in the boot), but has a ballast resistor in series on the ignition supply side (the other wires going to it are from the distributor and a blue-white wire which is the 'raw' 12v supply taken off the solenoid and live when the starting is operating. I'm hoping I don't have both a resistance wire and a ballast resistor in series giving too great a voltage drop and the coil nevertheless has '12v' embossed on it and might actually desire the full 12v all the time? The ballast resisitor got a bit hot as I had the ignition switched on but engine not running for a few moments and it started to smoke, but isn't damaged.



I think the battery is a squib, however newish it is, if it has sat for long periods discharging and discharged, it isn't going to be too healthy long-term, I'll be swapping the battery with the departing Cavalier mk3 which is a known good one, if only the Cavalier alternator would fit too it however has the ribbed belt and pulley (also driving PAS pump) but the pulley could be swapped over, I do however want to hand that over intact to a new owner rather than the scrapmna, though if unsold, I'll be as rapidly as possible cannibalising it.

It will certainly be able to limp to an MoT station in March and that's a good thing but want it generally usable before then.

Is there wisdom in notifying the engine cc size change (fromm 1159 to 1256) and new engine number to dvla bods?
I know when testing bikes these days they're checking not just VIN tallys with records but appear to be checking engine numbers tally too, though I've never presented one that didn't all match or know if they'll fail it or decline to test it for such reason. I've done so anyway (notified it with the chnge of owner), so can't backtrack now if the answer is 'for $deity's sake don't do that'.

Sorry if these are lame questions, I'm comfortable with electrickery just need to fill in the blanks, the PO is sending along an HB manual, so I'll have some more info, wiring diagram and so on soon hopefully, I'll also need a Chevette one for engine stuff and find out what age the Chevette was early mid-70s or or last 80s era ones, the donor Chevette had just 44,000 miles and it sounds a good one but they were always willing little lumps.

[thomas]

I'm no further forward with these issues.

Viva HB with Chevette 1256 engine recently installed.

I haven't identified a compatible alternator replacement for the dynamo and reg-rect. setup yet, more specifically in terms of part numbers and so on. Chevette engine suggests Chevette alternator would be an easy installation?

I've slung the presumably HB 1159 distributor, found in the boot, with offset drive on ebay, but I'd rather not sell this is if it might actually be a usable spare, if this engine has a Bosch distributor (and that is only a presumption based on the unreliable indication of the colour of cap being brown) then is it correct to assume that the 1159cc offset drive distributor could not ever be compatible with the Chevette engine and Bosch distributor? WIth the interchangeability of parts it would not be surprising to find a Chevette long ago given a transplant of a possibly older Viva engine; though the installed engine's number marked on the block matches the recorded engine number on V5 of the donor Chevette.

I still don't know if the ballast resistor on coil top should be there, the coil i embossed on the side 12V, theres, no resisitive wire voltage on the wire from ignition switch matches battery voltage, but measuring the voltage through the ballast resistor show only 3.6v, I'm worried the coil fitted should should be getting the full 12V all the time and is certainly getting less than even any 6v-8v a coil intended for ballasted operation should be getting. I'm looking at the breakerless kits in any case, the chap who had the blue HC sold recently DOF ...K is selling such s/hand kit on ebay but it's probably for the delco distributor.

A frustrating day, choke cable detached itself from carb, spring clip lost but search resumes tomorrow, cables to tilt seat forward came adrift from hook mechanism; originality is going to have to out the swivel-window and some decent seats installed as the wire spring structure under drivers seat is broken up, though might be weldable, I think Recaros or even stock seats, less headrests from a Mk1 Astra are on the cards, in tartan.

Other electrical gremlins, the fuel gauge (which is otherwise functional) goes to full tank when headlamp flash or full beam is activated, the little coloured semi-transparent windows over instrument are bulbs detached or missing.

Some wheelnuts seem different sizes from other wheel-nuts, most are near enough 19mm though, it might just be bubbling of the chrome on the wheelnuts which has swollen them and made the socket not fit, theres not much clearance between the wheel centres and the nuts, so a slim socket was required. The spare in its wheelwell fouls the boot hinges, possibly enough to prevent the boot sealing and admit water.

It feels like progress today, it'll be going to local garage in a week or so to change clutch release bearing and carry out a pre-MoT lookover, underneath might be some perishing rubbers and gaitors.

I have a horror of being stuck stranded with flat batteries and dislike however wise, carrying even a limited set of tools around all the time, never mind a spare battery, on the plus side the battery with it seems to have recovered from a staged overnight charge quite well and might be serviceable; so charging and starting are still uppermost issues. I've thrown away when clearing lockups and stuff in the past, at least two Chevette alternators, something or other that'll put out a decent 45A or so would be best, as headlight and wiper improvements are planned.

[thomas]

Just an update, thanks for stupendous help so far:

The Bosch rotor is bad:





New one expected. Odd failure, the little brass insert isn't connected to the tip, even when placed in: open circuit, it's being thrashing around under light friction from the tip in cap, enough to crumble the surrounding plastic and worked its way out of the plastic, disconnecting itself intermittently then terminally or possibly arcing internally or along its length.

Tests yesterday with ballast resistor in coil circuit, reading only 3.6v differ from today with unloaded resistor, without hefty voltage drop from coil itself, shows undetectable drop in battery voltage through it, resistance is around 0.4 ohms, should be around 1.5 ohms I would think very roughly so this might be fried, fortunately its mode of failure seems not to be open circuit. I'm wondering now if the accuspark breakerless utilises the existing coil and whether it eradicates the ballast resistor altogether; some kits found (but only for delco dizzys so far) supply their own coil with the kit, designed to run on the unreduced voltage full time, but presumably the stock coil could take it without cooking, it's the venerable Delco 7952666 12V coil.

Cranked over rather lazily, sharp frost still even by mid-day, hasn't ever thawed out despite clear blue skys, strong sunshine, need to swap this dynamo for any compatible reasonably high-powered alternator and eliminate the reg-rect., else the cars primary role will continue be as an aesthetically pleasing obstruction.

[thomas]

Rotors arrived, its running again. I have researched suitable alternators lucas acr17/18 seems appropriate, but I'm not sure if its shorter at the hinge end of its mounting and whether bracket for dynamo will suit to mount alternator. Don't fancy electronic ignition kit till spiky voltages from the dynamo are eliminated.

Great issue right now is instruments pcb gone, particularly tracks at top left, it has already had soldered repairs and tracks bypassed -- a mess, I can't even remove ends of handles on rocker switches, for fear I'm going to break them. What a woeful design these rocker switches are, pushing in the little lug thing on underside doesn't seem to help, think I'll just have to destroy them to get them out, deliberately if not accidentally, leaving it with no wipers and no lights until I can replace them with bog-standard switches, whatever can be found in local motor-factors.

Need a new PCB, might also fit a temp gauge too as I presume that's what should (optionally) be fitted at the opposite end from the fuel gauge, there's an unused sender present on Chevette head. These issues are show-stoppers, theres no point in putting this frazzled cluster back in unrepaired, a total waste of valuable time to try jury-rig it for the mot. Has anyone found a readily suitable electric fan kit for the 1256 engine?

I can see me breaking this car for spares, imminently. Should have bought another VW Beetle, lack of support - a brick wall or total indifference, dearth of basic information and spares availability were never issues. I commend the VW to any readers contemplating a Viva

This is developing into a rant, so I'll leave matters there. Offers for bolt-on panels, glass, trim, running gear etc. are invited.

[thomas]

This is the switch type in question:



The part you actually operate is bigger than the hole in the lockring; pressing the little tab on the underside yields no movement; I've a feeling they.ve been glued on after switch was in place, I could alway file each end of the switch to make it smaller than the hole in the lockring ...

How on earth do you get them out, even if not glued in, the plastic seems to have 'grown' together?

[thomas]

This is becoming a blog.

Got those switches out, using rather more force under the handle part than I was initially willing to use, for fear of breaking the whole thing or the plastic simply crumbling, it did neither, with them out I was able to further dismantle the instrument cluster, solder a wire to the fuel gauge for the hidden connection underneath, a previous owner had already bypassed the other two fuel gauge connections by attaching wire directly to the two bolts heads that protude. Stuck back the little red blue and green windows that had fallen off inside, sorted out the instrument illumination too, most of the little push in bulbs had developed poor connections, slight frosty white corrosion on connectors. Dash is now 100% functional with twinkly coloured lights.

I found in the process that the wiper and headlight switches both had non-zero, even fluctuating resistances, when turned on, I plan to install relays to to carry the heavier currents to the headlights at least, with the original switch(es) handlng just the low current relay coils. The single speed wiper is a poor thing, a column stalk to operate two-speed (plus intermittent please) would be nice, though I'd move the indicator stalk to the left side and have the wipers on the right (as I'm too used to that setup), even if the underlying wiper motor and wiring doesn't yet support such luxuries. The tiny blades and actual swept area of the screen is poor, with the drivers side finishing just past the centre of drivers line of sight, ameliorating this temporarily would have the wipers parked too far from horizontal to look right, I was amazed the wipers just push on to the splines with no locking nut.

Setup now with a strobe light and the duff rotor arm replaced, it's running very sweetly, a new ballast resistor has arrived and tested its about two ohms, so it confirms the original resisitor is burned out, noticed the new one has a green line running round it when 'uncooked' which would immediately burn off if it overheats, though might deteriorate with age and use and become indistinct normally, but its a good visual indication the resistor is healthy.

Electronic ignition kit is in the works, Bosch dizzy it seems is shared with Porsche 912 I'll be leaving the ballast resisitor IN circuit with this as the spiky voltages (17.2 volts seen) from the dynamo when running could harm the kit. Once an alternator is in place of the dynamo I would expect a very stable 14.2 - 14.4 maximum and then I'll probably go for a 12v full-time coil and ditch the ballast resistor.

Only gripe today is with the frayed ends of seat tip-up cables --aargh. Cables are too short, plan to just wind the ends round a bolt and squash between two washers at bottom if possible, rather than threading them through a pinhole at the bottom; local bicycle shop should hopefully yield suitable inner wires. The front seats, the drivers particularly needs a bit of welding on the springy bits underneath mainly, or I'll replace them altogether with anything suitable and not necessarily original that'll fit nicely and function similarly. I seem to remember nice plush green ones in a GL Astra Mk1 years ago, they'd be perfect I hope, still fairly matching the rest of interior trim.

[hbpeter]

Hello, sorry no ones replied, happens sometimes, everyone thinks everyone else is going to do it!! Give me a day or so to read it all and digest and I will try and come up with some answers/suggestions. Although electrics arnt my strong point. Hang in there, we'll get it sorted.

Peter

[pbottomley]

No. 1 issue on this HB is alternator, need to find what is compatible in terms of bracketry, fittings and wiring, belts, pulleys and get one on it and fitted rapidly, I'm going out with a voltmeter and a charged battery to see if the dynamo is putting anything out at all, I take it what's pictured is a dynamo as the lucas regulator is still in circuit.

Can anyone point me towards a source of what I'll need. This is an HB with Chevette 1256 power.

Though its a bit frankenstein, the points ignition can stay in the meantime and I'm not even sure what the dizzy is (the HB one or the Chevette one, I suspect it's Chevette, so then the question is is the dizzy Bosch

Any help appreciated.

Thomas i shall try and answer these one step at a time as you have maybe twenty questions, and i Think people may well be overwhelmed a bit with all the question.

Right keeping it very simple, you need a mini alterntor and a chevtte alternator mount, you will also need a fan belt from a chevtte as its slight diff length, i am not 100% on the changes to wiring required.

The dizzy is a bosch

[pbottomley]

This second shot shows the coil, which is marked 12v on the side (and looks identical, tho the spare one in the boot), but has a ballast resistor in series on the ignition supply side (the other wires going to it are from the distributor and a blue-white wire which is the 'raw' 12v supply taken off the solenoid and live when the starting is operating. I'm hoping I don't have both a resistance wire and a ballast resistor in series giving too great a voltage drop and the coil nevertheless has '12v' embossed on it and might actually desire the full 12v all the time? The ballast resisitor got a bit hot as I had the ignition switched on but engine not running for a few moments and it started to smoke, but isn't damaged.

Yep points will be live when you turn the key! Coil should have both wires, all is correct as i see it. The hb,s didnt have an in wire resistor.