HB + Mazda 24v V6. Now sold and gone to a good home :-)

This is an area for discussion about modifications to Vivas.

Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby yoeddynz » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:37 pm

OK a quick update before I continue on with wiring etc. Im taking this week off work to hopefully get all the wiring and basic ecu setup sorted out. Maybe if the time gods allow I will try starting it in Easter weekend.

I have been making my own 36-1 trigger wheel. I have spun down the old 6 point pressed steel disc that is pushed onto the front pulley. I machined a new ring and then with the quick and fantastic response from several on this here great forum I got a cad picture emailed to me which I used as my stencil. I then spent about an hour filing. I need to double check it but so far its pretty accurate. Some teeth are about .2mm narrower than others but I reckon if I keep filing them down chasing perfection I'll end up with nothing left. I figure that the ECU software might have some sort of 'smoothing of the signal' in the code? once I have tigged the ring onto the turned down base I'll pop it in the lathe and double check it spins true.

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I have added a boss (turned down $1 nut) for the wideband. Its only reading one bank but maybe in the future I add another on other side. I thought putting it in the Y pipe further down would be too far away and lower response time? Maybe I'll put a boss there too..

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I gave the new engine a quick clean and assembled it together with new gaskets, pulleys, T belt etc that came with the bargain bulk load of bits from Auckland.

I also stripped the heads down, replaced the troublesome JDM ZE spec inlet valve springs and retainers (well known for breaking and dropping valves) with some better items from my spare heads. I also checked the cam cap clearances. Many factory heads have too much clearance and the engine can suffer from poor mains pressure as a result. Mine were spot on :-)

I assembled the inlet together with seals and the base of the plenum was slightly bowed out stopping the runners sealing properly. I needed to squash it down but the bench was just lifting up when using the bottle jack. I needed something heavy. I chose our house..

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On Saturday we pulled the 2 litre out. Luckily we had a very handy and helpful tree right there!

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While the engine was out I painted all the engine mounts and touched up the crossmember etc

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Then we slung the new engine in place. Happy times. Such a satisfying feeling when the shaft slides into the hole.....


The bright orange covers are only there for now- the previous owner had chopped them down as he didn't use the timing belt covers. I'm going to repaint some other cam covers and cover my belt. But the orange does look cool eh... gulf racing almost..

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yoeddynz
Brabham Viva
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Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby yoeddynz » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:38 pm

Mini update (well not a mini..a viva..) but yeah while it rains I'll upload some photos here.

Had the week off work and got plenty done. Have pretty much finished all the wiring. Just some brackets to hold looms in place and some earth points to do. Oh..speaking of earths I must mount the engine earth strap to chassis. I hear that engines like them....

Between the Eunos 500 we tore apart and the engine that came from Westport I have had plenty'o'wire. In fact I have enough to do several cars. I reckon if I soldered all the bits of wire end to end it would stretch from Fosters clearing hut to the Hackett hut in the Richmond ranges. This is just a guess as I have not yet been to the Hackett hut and I don't know how twisty the track is.

But I have been to Fosters clearing many times and fully recommend it.

I would use a lot of solder too.

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I was going to originally run the wires intact from sensors, injectors etc in one run back to the ECU but when I found the second loom was complete (unlike the Eunos one which had been hacked apart..I blame Timmy the cat) I decided to use the multipin plugs, change a few wires here and there and have it so I can easily remove the loom from the bay for future mods.

The wiring took a bit longer than I thought. It was not at all complex- in fact the wiring for the ECU is very simple. It was more me trying to do things neatly and keep it future proof. I have added extra wires for essential future upgrades like Klaxon horns etc

Just about to fit the ecu and associated loom in place....

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Hannah has been tidying up the wheels before final painting. I don't think they will be ready for (hopefully) our trip to the nats though. Cleaning and sorting out the plug leads. Luckily we had about 4 sets and were able to pick out a combination of lengths to suit the new coils

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I made a simple intake pipe from the K&N pod filter that came with the job lot of engine bits. I added a mounting point for the air intake temp sensor. The filter should pick up cold air from the hole I made in the front panel. But the pipe passes just above and behind the radiator. Hopefully it wont pick up too much heat frm that. Will look into it in the future.

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One job last night was to mount the fans to the radiator. I had a basic mounting kit consisting of those round zip lock things but it was *Bleep*. I made some 3mm brazing rod so I ran a 3mm die onto it and made up some neat little reusable mounting rods..

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I also added a drain to the bottom of the radiator- always a pain in the *Bleep* removing a tight fitting hose to drain the system.

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The trigger wheel all finished, well unpainted and not pressed on..

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When checking the torque of crank bolt the manual mentioned a timing belt guide disc between the fan pulley and the belt pulley. I could not remember ever seeing one of these and looked every where, checked one of the spare engines. Finally realised I had been reading the page for the 4 cylinder mx6 engine!!!
yoeddynz
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Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby yoeddynz » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:39 pm

Update time since its cold outside and warm in the truck. I'm tired after a bad nights sleep from worrying about why my brakes wouldn't work. But now I have brakes and all is good.

I also have oil pressure on an engine that turns over very nicely indeedy. Hopefully tomorrow morning I'll know whether its a quiet exhaust or not, I have a feeling its gonna have pretty awesome induction sound as the plenum lid might add to the resonance and only has a short tube to a fairly big pod filter.

So today after mucking about getting the brakes to work I had to pop into town and get more oil. The engine sits at an angle- the rear an inch or so lower than the front so the sump oil level shown on the front mounted dippy stick isn't accurate. I have calculated through my best guess work and jacking the car up till the engine is about level that low means full.

After sorting that out, adding an earth wire for engine I then removed the oil pressure switch and squirted oil in the hole till it ran out- this meant oil made its way back to the oil pump and helped prime it. Then removed the plugs and turned it over. It spins quick and smooth- in fact so smooth and quiet I first thought that the starter hadn't engaged and was just spinning it self over! watched the oil light....watching watching - poof. Out it went. Yes!

Fitted plugs and tested it- still a nice quiet fast turn over. Good.

A friend turned up in the late afternoon while I was fitting the earth wiring for the ECU to the block. After he left I tried the ECU and no signal? weird?.. I checked everything. Then thought I'd check the earth wires were grounding well. Turns out I had undone the bolt, NOT fitted the wires eyelet and then just refitted the bolt. Facepalm.

Earthed it this time and all good.

This evening Hannah and I have been reading through the MSextra guides to checks and base settings. All the pins work as should. The temp sensors work, the TPS works etc.

Then we went through and calibrated all the calibratable bits. Then it got dark and am tired. I will try starting it in the morning after a few little loose ends to tie.

Some photos..

As it is but now with body coloured cam covers (most important) they look lush.

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The alternator tensioner I made...

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Exhaust wrapping time = itchy

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and finally playing with laptops inside a Viva. Note my kitchen drawer runner equipped pull out ECU tray. I did that.. very proud. Me likey :-)

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yoeddynz
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Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby yoeddynz » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:40 pm

I have got my Viva running this afternoon- started on 4th turn of key after constantly bumping the required fuel value up till it would fire. Very relieved and pretty bloody stoked as its my first ever build of an ECU and foray into fuel infection.

So earlier today Hannah was filling the rad up with nice new coolant and it started leaking out of the rear hose fitting that goes into the thermostat housing. Bugger! So we drained the rad (bloody happy I added a drain to it as the bottom hose is awkward to remove- its a really tight fit onto the rad). Once drained I removed the fitting and checked the O ring. While off we bled the clutch as better access. Came up good and new uprated clutch is quite a bit heavier than the stock RX7 item I previously had.

Re-assembled the pipes, filled the system and this time a small leak from the thermostat housing itself! Bugger!!!

Off with the hoses again took off the 'stat housing. The 'stat seals with a rubber ring attached to its perimeter. I refitted it with some sealant.

All good now and no leaks. Time to try starting it..

And it started- yes!! It wont idle without ever so slightly pressing down the pedal and yet the afr was very lean at 18-19. So we spent the next 1/2 hour or so playing with the required fuel amount and checking things while being really happy that it started and runs but also aware and slightly daunted at the newness of all this tuning via laptop.. but *Bleep* I should just be happy it works. Quite cool really. Checked the timing and I think its spot on 10 btdc, hard to tell exactly as the idle is off, but yeah my trigger wheel works. Happy about that.

Oh, plus the $3 worth of diodes I bought from Jaycar that I added to the coil grounds have given a sweet signal for my old Trisco rev counter and its bang on with the laptop. Didn't know how well this would work.

But problems..

After not long the temp crept up and fans came on (sweet as I wasn't sure if I had done the right jumpers inside the ECU. Temp climbed too 90 and fans were not cooling it. then almost 100.

Oh.

I started to worry that I had got the pipe routing wrong but have checked it and its fine. So I suspect that the thermostat might be faulty. or I have not entered the right values for the temp sensor and its not actually at 90? In the morning I will pull the 'stat out and test it. Should have tested it when it was out damn it!!! Just presumed it was fine.

I need to find out what is the normal running temp of these engines too so I can set my fans right. Once its running I can verify the temp with a digital gauge I have.

Anyway... The engine sounds awesome!!! even when running out of tune. I have yet to take a video as I was far to concerned with tuning, temps etc. Its quieter exhaust then I thought it might be which is good- sort of a lower burble. And the induction sound will be wicked I think.

I have much tuning to do yet and have not found solid info on how to setup the pwm idle control valve anywhere- like what settings should it be for a KL V6 and how does it actually work?

Here are some photos I took just before as it stands...

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Very happy!!! Still much to learn. :)
yoeddynz
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Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby yoeddynz » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:40 pm

So I killed it. Well its not dead. But this morning after a cold start tuneup, warmup I decided to take it out for a good drive up some decent hills. But I barely got onto SH6 heading out of nelson, accelerated moderately hard and suddenly this awful loud rattling started. First I thought G/box as the sound was coming up through the hole in the tunnel(yeah still a big open hole where the loom comes in.. its a professional tuning thing, better for seat of pants style tuning as I can hear things...ha)

pulled off road and even at 2000 it rattled. I then thought big end has gone. Drove very carefully to work, hard to do in a grunty twitchy V6 with a slightly touchy gas pedal. Once at work showed boss and others. They love the conversion but not the noise. None of us could pin it down but it was at its loudest inside Cam cover on pass side near the back. It really did sound like either massive piston slap or something sitting on piston.
Took it home and pulled the head off. Nothing! checked the valves, springs, collets, HLAs etc. all seem fine. Had me stumped and quite gutted. I reckon the sound was being amplified up the oil drop hole from the block.
Also noted how oily all the piston tops are and how loose the valves are through the seals. I should really have pulled the engine down and checked things out but was assured it was a low mileage engine. I think it is a big end or maybe a gudgeon pin. Will strip and find out in near future.

Oh well- *Bleep* happens. I tried my best. Shame it happened so soon as I really was enjoying driving it.

I shall build up the other 2.5 block but not till after I have checked it all out. Will probably get new valve guides too. Or see if the other heads are better.

Anyway- tonight I stayed out late. In fact I only just got in about 9.15. Here are some photos...

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yoeddynz
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Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby yoeddynz » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:44 pm

So I'll put what I wrote just before back on page 17 about the latest on the current engine. And then I'll keep posting with updates I promise :oops:


'Yeah it's all go. The 2.5 litre engine did indeed start making very loud clacking sounds from one cam bank- possibly a knackered lifter but not sure. So it got pulled out and a quick swap with the 2 litre that had originally been in the car for the setup. This was all in the last week before our big planned trip up north for the Oldschool.co.nz nationals. :D :(

With many late nights and some luck we managed to get it up and running again and made it to the nats...

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I'll say this now- wow the V6 soundtrack is fantastic!!!!! :shock: :D 8) I love rotaries but they don't sound particularly amazing. But this V6, even though it's 50bhp down in the 2.5 fitted a few days before, has such a lovely burble at idle rising to a lovely low growl and then at high revs sounds more v6 touring car. All this with very little thought into my exhaust. In fact it's still just the same 2 1/4" straight through with 3 resonators that I built for the rotary.

So we have just got back last night from a mini roadtrip we had planned after the nats. We did about 1000 miles and considering the engine was an unknown quality 50quid special it went really well. Only a leaky fuel tank outlet being an issue.
The engine suits the Viva perfectly. Current axle is 3.7 to 1 and could be quite a bit higher but even still we have seen 35mpg. Much better than the rotary. Plus so much more low down grunt. Nothing compared to a V8 or even an Essex v6 but more than enough.

I
yoeddynz
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Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby yoeddynz » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:03 pm

Wow- what an awesome last week or so. I hope I don't forget it so this is actually sort of a diary for me.

So the 2.5 litre KLZE threw its toys from the cot. Im not sure what toys its thrown as I have not had a proper look yet. After taking off the noisy head and removing the valves etc, inspecting the pistons, generally standing at my shed bench looking at dirty oily parts where there be an unfamiliar noise coning from somewhere in them, sucking air through teeth, thoughts racing through my head of all the possible potential things that could have happened deep within, I about gave up and started to pack everything up. Then go for a bike ride.

Then I suddenly thought of the 2 litre KFDE sitting at work. It had very clean inlet runners which is a good sign, had never been apart or so it looked, was meant to be from a car showing 140k. I knew it all fitted cause the engine bay was built around it.
I rang Slacker Sam in Motueka and asked if he could help me on the Tuesday to install it. Yep.

Rang work and told them not to lock up and that I was coming to pick up the engine.

On way to work in Van I decided I would keep this all secret from the oldschool crowd- for several reasons- if it all goes to *Bleep* then no need to write anything huh. If it works then what a cool surprise for the Nats!

I was up till about 9.30 pulling the 2.5 out. Next morning I was out there at 7.30 pulling it down and swapping all the new parts across to the 2.0. Water pump, belts, pulleys, thermostat housing- anything modified to fit. By about 12 it was ready to sling in and Sam turned up on time. It went in without hassle and Sam stayed till about 4.30 including through some serious rain! The area around the car had cardboard down on mud and a tarp under the carpet. Looked a mess with bits everywhere. Shame I didn't think to take photos!

Hannah turned up at 5.30 just as I was fitting the coils and filling the radiator. Turned it over without plugs and seemed fine- pressured up quick.

Plugged it up and it started first turn of key! sweet! Followers noisy but soon went quiet once it warmed up.
So we went for a drive- it ran fine. Nowhere near as grunty as the 2.5 but still sounded mean and very smooth. We drove it about an hour and set it up on autotune. Success. But I still wasn't totally relaxed yet.

I wanted to test it following morning up some good climbs. So I did. Its fun! oh the sound. main problem showing up was the passenger exhaust manifold. It would get hot on hard runs and expand- moving the lowest header primary downwards about 3mm enough to hit the front crossmember. So I took the car to work and lifted the engine up with some spacers. Not enough as we found out on trip- it still rattles the exhaust when hot so I'll be fixing that soon.

On the Wednesday I also refitted the carpets, managed to get the parcel shelf back in place with some holesawing to clear the ecu loom. Added an oldschool sticker. All essential stuff.

Come Thursday morning we packed the car up and took off to Blenheim. Uneventful- smooth classy motoring at its best in a not so poverty spec Viva Deluxe. The car managed a very easy about 8.5-9 l/100km too. sweet- as that was the prime reason for removing the rotary..

Up very early on Friday morning and off to the ferry. Then the nats. Yes! funtimes.

After the nats we continued north to Wanganui but not before discovering that the Loctite gasket maker I had
used to seal the lid of my surge tank didn't appear to like petrol. So parked up in the Palmaston north supercheap carpark under the car getting covered in fresh petrol, petrol burns on upper arms, petrol in my eyes, yep a lovely way to spend a couple of sunny afternoon hours.

Then the pipe off the main tank started to leak. Bugger. The very friendly chap at Riverspeed repairs in Wanganui let me use his dry floor, tools, and gave me some fuel line. He didn't want anything in return when I offered. Top bloke! would trade again for sure!

After Wanganui we headed to Opunake and camped there the night. I bought a wetsuit as had been meaning to do for ages and we spent much time in the waves on the bodyboards (not a surfer, not pretending to be but love the sea and is a nice beach btw)

We then headed south again and stayed at the same awesome Doc campsite in the Tararuas. Kiriwhakapapa road. Sweet spot- good bush. Only photo I took of car on trip really- and a pretty sh-t one at that too. Its dinner time..

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Home last night. Car went great. No major faults. tuning needed. Averaged 9.4L/100. Ohhhhhh the sound.

Happy.

Now all the little jobs like seal it so it doesn't flood with water everytime it rains hard! Fit new dash. Get brakes working better, replace window and door seals, build up hard as 2.5.
yoeddynz
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Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby yoeddynz » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:13 am

Shitty shitty Quinton Hazel balljoints!!!!:doubt: I replaced a slightly worn Lockheed one last year sometime with a QH item and then come the cert 2 months ago it was found to be sloppy. So I replaced it with another new one and its already gone sloppy!

I have located some new lockheed items in dear old Blighty and just paid for them tonight. Hopefully next week I'll get them.

I took apart a QH one and a lockheed unit for a looksie. The Lockheed one is much beefier and has a strong coil spring to keep it under tension. The QH one relies on a little piece of rubber pushing down on a plastic bush. Just *Bleep*. I have since heard that QH stuff was quite often poor quality.

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I have also ordered some new bushes for the front upper arms from the same supplier. Total bill 182 squid - ouch.

This evening however was lovely and on my way to pick up Hannah I got a nice photo near Nelson port..

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yoeddynz
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Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby Al3x » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:48 pm

wow, how can i have missed this?! I guess its since i havent been in the forum for a long time..
Anyway, looks like a great conversion, must be really fun to drive now? Im guessing that Engine dont weigh that very much either? :)


//alex
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Re: My HB evolution continues- now Mazda 24valve V6 powered.

Postby yoeddynz » Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:20 am

Cheers Alex. Yeah it's a very light weight engine. Which is nice because the handling has remained nice and neutral. The car almost had 50/50 weight distribution with rotary. hopefully it's the same with the V6. I need to re-weigh it.

Struggling with bleeding the brakes again since having removed the master cylinder. Need to ask about this in the techy section....
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