Escort Mk1 V Viva HB ??? Whats better??

[Steve]

I thought the title might provoke some posts!!

I've always been a Ford man having owned several escorts when I began driving at 18 in the early 90s

Now 15 years later I find myself desperate for an older motor to drive and tinker with (as a hobby rather than my daily transport) .I also feel the need to buy something tax exempt.

But where Mk1s were plentiful in 1991 they are now very collectable and expensive with basket cases fetching 700 quid.

So I am seriously looking at Viva HB, they are about the same shape and size, available in various engine sizes and alot cheaper to buy!!

I wondered what the Viva followers/owners think about the two cars? The escort has a great rally pedigree and parts/mods are cheap and plentiful,the xflow and pinto engines are simple to work on and pretty reliable,.Whats the GT 1975 like? Ive seen a really nice GT for sale for afew grand (An escort RS in that condition would,be at least 5grand) It does appear that Viva are less collectable?? Steve

[northern nutter]

I know where you are coming from mate, i have had Mk1 & 2 escorts in the past.
I now have a GT and i am currently building a modified GT which has arches like the MK1 works arches. Me i would have a GT. put the RS next to the GT and you will have a good race the tork of the GT slant 4 engine is better than the escorts.
The x flow 1.3 is better than the viva 1256. My old escort would sit at 90mph all day a 1256 will not do that.
You can mix the two, the ford x flow and the kent will fit in the HB viva and is an easy mod.
 
 
Its over to you Sid & Tony
 
Deon

This post was made via email to the Vauxhall Viva Owners Club
Visit us at www.vauxhallviva.com

[Sid]

You are right that in the "classic marketplace" the Fords are considered far more "collectable" and are thus worth more, however
anyone comparing the Viva to the Escort objectively, as a road car, would have to conclude the Viva is the better car all round.

The Vivas double wishbone suspension, though too short for rallying, gives infinitely better handing on tarmac. The Viva is better
specced throughout and more comfortable.
Back in the early '80 me and my mates had a selection of Viva HB, HCs, mk1 & 2 Escorts, Marinas and Avengers, all 1100-1300s and I
can say with all honesty that the Vivas ran rings round all the others as standard, though the Fords are good when modded as I
eventually found with my mk2 cortina, but that car of mine practically needed the suspension redesigning and building from scratch
to even get near the *stack* handing of the superior Viva.

Both Escort and Viva are equally easy to maintain from a "work" viewpoint, but of course parts availability does give the Ford a
huge advantage in that area!
>From experience of Fords and Vauxhalls I reckon an HB Viva with a well "built" X-flow, would be the perfect day-to-day classic.

Sid

[Sid]

Sorry I meant *stock* handling, not stack!.

Sid

[Steve]

Deon I think it was your GT I was referring to when I mentioned buying one for a couple of grand That looks a good deal but Im not allowed to buy anything until the new bathroom is fitted !!

I do think HB's are far more rare, Scorts are still popular i do see the odd one on the road but I never see Viva HB's. about. Ebay has plenty of MK1s but Vivas dont come up that often.

I really like the idea of a Xflow conversion. Whats required it make if fit? just mounts/exhaust mods etc? not sure if the gear box tunnel would need modifying ?

Just for info I did see a 1256 Delux in light green (4 door) parked on a driveway locally in Derby.I knocked on the door and was told the car belonged to this guys grandad who had died afew years back.It is a one owner car from 1969 and am told he will sell it. Didnt get a price as this guys sister part owns it. (its been unused parked up for afew years).If anyones interested i could find out more.(WRC 624G) Im not really interested as I will be buying a 2 dr.

Cheers Steve ...new Viva enthusiast...

[Sid]

> not sure if the gear box tunnel would need modifying ?

Nope, I've got a Ford "type 9" (5-speed from an RS2000, same as pre-88 Sierra box) in the stock tunnel on my HB. All the Ford boxes
will fit the tunnel except for maybe the cossie T5.

X-flow, with the escort type (rear pan) sump (NOT the mk2 Cortina one) will pretty much drop straight in with minor fabrication
work. There's no body cutting needed.
Obviously you'll need the front half of a Ford propshaft matching the chosen gearbox.

Hardest bit *might* be making an escort-fit tubular exhaust manifold fit past the back leg of the Viva subframe, but I'm sure it's
achievable.

Top tip, mk2 cortina speedo cable (and maybe others) fit the Vauxhall clocks as well as the Ford boxes.
Viva clutch cable will mate upto most Ford boxes (again not the mk2 cortina as its hydraulic!)
and the accelerator linkage can be adapted to fit a Ford's downdaught carb quite easily (preferably a 32/36 Weber)
You'll need a different heater valve (a "bypass" type like one from a Magnum) if you want to use the auto-choke carb and still
retain both hot and cold heater functionality, cos HBs valve would kill the choke flow with the heaters turned off.

Sid

[Dave1300GLS]

I must put my view forward as well as owning vivas and mk2 ecsorts ie 1.3GL and 1.6 sport the escort is the finest handling car of its time bar shite its rear end drift and control capabilities are unsurpassed the 1.3 escort in standard trim is faster than the 1256hc is smoother and handles infininatley better i had a standard 1.3 at 105mph. i have had my HC GLS at that speed with a nikki carb and a polish head but i still get the feeling i am gonna loose my timing chain!!!!!!. But for all my boasting of the escort my Viva HC GLS has more charm its more reliable it starts first time in sub zero temps unlike an escort its better equipped it tows better as well i tows a 14ft sprite caravan and they weighed a ton no problem the engine is a water pump it just keeps plodding so whilst i give the escort a 9.5 out of 10 my viva for all her qwerks get the 10 out of 10 and i believe my GLS with her twin headlamps and red paint is prettier than my escort in red!!. Anyway thats just my view.

Dave.B
HC82

[Sid]

I dont know how you can say a 1.3 mk3 escort out-handles a HB/HC Viva, unless cornering on the door handles and fish-tailing out of
every bend is what appeals to you

My mate had that same car (well a 1.3L actually) and he couldn't get anywhere near my old HB on the bends with exactly the same
tyres, and whilst the top speed might just beat the Viva, god only knows how you got a stock 1.3 x-flow over the ton! Still mk2
excort speedos are grossly optimistic. At 85 on my HBs clock his Escort was showing 90+.

Sid

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave1300GLS" <Dave1300GLS@msn.com>
To: <general@vauxhallviva.com>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:08 PM
Subject: Escort Mk1 V Viva HB ??? Whats better??


>
> I must put my view forward as well as owning vivas and mk2 ecsorts ie 1.3GL and 1.6 sport the escort is the finest handling car of
> its time bar shite its rear end drift and control capabilities are unsurpassed the 1.3 escort in standard trim is faster than the
> 1256hc is smoother and handles infininatley better i had a standard 1.3 at 105mph. i have had my HC GLS at that speed with a nikki
> carb and a polish head but i still get the feeling i am gonna loose my timing chain!!!!!!. But for all my boasting of the escort
> my Viva HC GLS has more charm its more reliable it starts first time in sub zero temps unlike an escort its better equipped it
> tows better as well i tows a 14ft sprite caravan and they weighed a ton no problem the engine is a water pump it just keeps
> plodding so whilst i give the escort a 9.5 out of 10 my viva for all her qwerks get the 10 out of 10 and i believe my GLS with her
> twin headlamps and red paint is prettier than my escort in red!!. Anyway thats just my view.
>
> Dave.B
> HC82
> _________________________________________________________
> This email was sent from the vauxhall viva owners club forum
> Visit us at www.vauxhallviva.com



This post was made via email to the Vauxhall Viva Owners Club
Visit us at www.vauxhallviva.com

[Sid]

oops typo again I was talking about mk2 (not mk3).

I've driven several mk1 & 2 Escorts and I have to say, at the risk of upsetting fellow ex-ford owners, that the mk2 in particular,
in standard road form, had the worst body roll and "loosest" real end of almost any car I've ever driven. Only the morris Marina and
mk2 cortina were worse.
I've owned or driven just about every Ford made in that era and whilst I know they *can* be made to handle with the right upgrades,
the leaf-sprung ones certainly dont do it as standard.

Sid

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sid" <redliner@rockmachine.co.uk>
To: <general@vauxhallviva.com>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Escort Mk1 V Viva HB ??? Whats better??


>
> I dont know how you can say a 1.3 mk3 escort out-handles a HB/HC Viva, unless cornering on the door handles and fish-tailing out
> of
> every bend is what appeals to you
>
> My mate had that same car (well a 1.3L actually) and he couldn't get anywhere near my old HB on the bends with exactly the same
> tyres, and whilst the top speed might just beat the Viva, god only knows how you got a stock 1.3 x-flow over the ton! Still mk2
> excort speedos are grossly optimistic. At 85 on my HBs clock his Escort was showing 90+.
>
> Sid
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave1300GLS" <Dave1300GLS@msn.com>
> To: <general@vauxhallviva.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:08 PM
> Subject: Escort Mk1 V Viva HB ??? Whats better??
>
>
>>
>> I must put my view forward as well as owning vivas and mk2 ecsorts ie 1.3GL and 1.6 sport the escort is the finest handling car
>> of
>> its time bar shite its rear end drift and control capabilities are unsurpassed the 1.3 escort in standard trim is faster than the
>> 1256hc is smoother and handles infininatley better i had a standard 1.3 at 105mph. i have had my HC GLS at that speed with a
>> nikki
>> carb and a polish head but i still get the feeling i am gonna loose my timing chain!!!!!!. But for all my boasting of the escort
>> my Viva HC GLS has more charm its more reliable it starts first time in sub zero temps unlike an escort its better equipped it
>> tows better as well i tows a 14ft sprite caravan and they weighed a ton no problem the engine is a water pump it just keeps
>> plodding so whilst i give the escort a 9.5 out of 10 my viva for all her qwerks get the 10 out of 10 and i believe my GLS with
>> her
>> twin headlamps and red paint is prettier than my escort in red!!. Anyway thats just my view.
>>
>> Dave.B
>> HC82
>> _________________________________________________________
>> This email was sent from the vauxhall viva owners club forum
>> Visit us at www.vauxhallviva.com
>
>
>



This post was made via email to the Vauxhall Viva Owners Club
Visit us at www.vauxhallviva.com

[Sid]

Before anyone jumps to the Escort's defence by talking about it's rallying success I must point out that
a) Long travel suspension, pointless on a road car, made it the ideal basis for rallying.
b) You can't compare the rally cars to the road cars.
The rear springs are 100% harder than stock, the fronts are 200% harder and damper rates increased by even more. The racing rear
axles are kept at bay using essential radius arms not found on basic road cars, anti-roll bars are much heavier, and the front
suspension geometry is radically altered.
I performed most of the above upgrades on my mk2 Cortina and all I can say is that it was a completely different car entirely. You
can *make* any car handle if you change it enough. Ford's advantage was that they *did*!

Vauxhall on the other hand built the ideal suspension for the road. Hence Ford copied it completely on their most successful road
car ever, the Cortina (mk3/4/5 suspension is virtually a clone copy of the HB/HC Viva's setup but with sloppier springs/dampers to
give the usual soggy road-Ford ride).

Sid

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sid" <redliner@rockmachine.co.uk>
To: <general@vauxhallviva.com>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Escort Mk1 V Viva HB ??? Whats better??


>
> oops typo again I was talking about mk2 (not mk3).
>
> I've driven several mk1 & 2 Escorts and I have to say, at the risk of upsetting fellow ex-ford owners, that the mk2 in particular,
> in standard road form, had the worst body roll and "loosest" real end of almost any car I've ever driven. Only the morris Marina
> and
> mk2 cortina were worse.
> I've owned or driven just about every Ford made in that era and whilst I know they *can* be made to handle with the right
> upgrades,
> the leaf-sprung ones certainly dont do it as standard.
>
> Sid
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sid" <redliner@rockmachine.co.uk>
> To: <general@vauxhallviva.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 1:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Escort Mk1 V Viva HB ??? Whats better??
>
>
>>
>> I dont know how you can say a 1.3 mk3 escort out-handles a HB/HC Viva, unless cornering on the door handles and fish-tailing out
>> of
>> every bend is what appeals to you
>>
>> My mate had that same car (well a 1.3L actually) and he couldn't get anywhere near my old HB on the bends with exactly the same
>> tyres, and whilst the top speed might just beat the Viva, god only knows how you got a stock 1.3 x-flow over the ton! Still mk2
>> excort speedos are grossly optimistic. At 85 on my HBs clock his Escort was showing 90+.
>>
>> Sid
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave1300GLS" <Dave1300GLS@msn.com>
>> To: <general@vauxhallviva.com>
>> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:08 PM
>> Subject: Escort Mk1 V Viva HB ??? Whats better??
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I must put my view forward as well as owning vivas and mk2 ecsorts ie 1.3GL and 1.6 sport the escort is the finest handling car
>>> of
>>> its time bar shite its rear end drift and control capabilities are unsurpassed the 1.3 escort in standard trim is faster than
>>> the
>>> 1256hc is smoother and handles infininatley better i had a standard 1.3 at 105mph. i have had my HC GLS at that speed with a
>>> nikki
>>> carb and a polish head but i still get the feeling i am gonna loose my timing chain!!!!!!. But for all my boasting of the escort
>>> my Viva HC GLS has more charm its more reliable it starts first time in sub zero temps unlike an escort its better equipped it
>>> tows better as well i tows a 14ft sprite caravan and they weighed a ton no problem the engine is a water pump it just keeps
>>> plodding so whilst i give the escort a 9.5 out of 10 my viva for all her qwerks get the 10 out of 10 and i believe my GLS with
>>> her
>>> twin headlamps and red paint is prettier than my escort in red!!. Anyway thats just my view.
>>>
>>> Dave.B
>>> HC82
>>> _________________________________________________________
>>> This email was sent from the vauxhall viva owners club forum
>>> Visit us at www.vauxhallviva.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



This post was made via email to the Vauxhall Viva Owners Club
Visit us at www.vauxhallviva.com